Still in denial: Turkey not only ignores Armenian pleas to recognize the Turkish genocide of some 1.5 million Armenians, it bullies other governments into denying that holocaust while prosecuting anyone in Turkey who refers to it as a genocide (Joshua Roberts/Getty Images).
Iran's Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is justly condemned for his rants and raves about "the conspiracies of some powers and Zionist circles" and his (and his regime's) toxic mix of Holocaust denying or denigration.
When Turkey peddles similar poisons, regarding Armenians, as it did the very day Ahmadinejad was lecturing the Geneva conference on racism, not a word was said by Official Washington or the European Union. This, on the heels of Barack Obama reverentially addressing the Turkish Parliament on its own floor.
Last night in Canada, representative from across the spectrum of the Canadian government--conservatives, liberals and in betweeners--commemorated the Armenian genocide (1915-1923), in which some 1.5 million Armenians were murdered by Ottoman Turks and Kurds in the dying days of the Ottoman empire and before the emergence of the Turkish republic. In 2004, the Canadian Parliament passed a bill that read: ""That this house acknowledge the Armenian Genocide of 1915 and condemn this act as a crime against humanity." The then-government of Paul Martin refused to endorse the bill, but subsequently Prime Minister Stephen Harper did (a lesson to the U.S. Congress, which has yet to pass a similar bill).
Turkey's response? It recalled its ambassador to Canada "for consultation." How different, exactly, is that from Ahmadinejad's shenanigans? Not very, in my book.
But European and American governments continue to dance around Turkey's denials because Turkey and Armenia, who may be normalizing relations, may be the West's new gate to the oil-rich Caucasus.
The Globe & Mail is reporting that Obama may be addressing the Armenian genocide issue later this week. He's on record supporting the bill declaring the genocide as such. But he's backpedaled since becoming president.
It's easy to demolish Ahmadinejad. He's duplicity's clown. But it's also meaningless if the same standard doesn't apply to other holocaust deniers. Turkey bullies those who don't submit to its false history. Canada refuses to go along. The United States officially still does. Time to end that charade.
See Also:
- Obama Breaks His Promise on the Armenian Genocide
- Obama on the "Importance of US-Armenian Relations"
- Obama, Turkey and the Armenian Genocide
- The Armenian Genocide by Ottoman Turkey, 1915-1916: Facts and Figures
- Turkey's Genocide Problem and the U.S. House's
- Full Text of House Resolution Recognizing the Armenian Genocide
- Members of Canadian Parliament honored at Armenian genocide ceremony
Comments
This is a brilliant point that cannot be easily dismissed. Dancing with Turkey is a dangerous game that might lead to future Genocides. Remember the 1939 dance with Hitler? Some people apparently have very short memory.
Simply, because if friends do it , it is not genocide and beside this Turky has poweful friends like “American Israeli Public Affairs Committee” (AIPAC)
Turkey and Israel have interesting and useful relations, but I’m not sure what AIPAC got to do with this, least of all regarding holocaust-denial.
The difference is that the Holocaust has been proven in the courts, at Nuremberg.
The accusations against the Turks has never been placed in front of a tribunal where they can be looked at impartially and judged. Genocide being a legal term needs that. The Holocaust cannot be denied. It is a fact.
Turkey has continuously supported the establishment of a fair and impartial tribunal and said she would recognise the verdict. Armenians have always been against this. Why? If the evidence is so obvious like they claim then surely it should be a stroll in the park for them? Or is what they claim just not quite the way it was?
1.5 million dead is an impossible figure. Ottoman and Armenian Church censuses give figures from 1.3 million to 1.6 million. If as many had died as claimed then the millions of Armenians in Europe, USA, Middle East, Russia and the occupied Karabagh, descendants of “survivors”, would not exist.
Over 300,000 muslims were murdered in Eastern Anatolia by Armenians, part of their own genocidal plans to create an ethnically pure homeland in Eastern Turkey. Fortunately a failed plan.
That coupled with their support of invading Russians, who had occupied 6 Turkish provinces, was what led to Armenians in Eastern Turkey, Armenians elsewhere in the Ottoman Empire where untouched, to being relocated to what is now Syria and Lebanon.
This is a more accurate reality of events, a narrative that can be proven and a Tribunal would agree with. This is the reason why Armenian Genocide supporters do not want a fair and impartial Tribunal.
KG, legalisms don’t certify a genocide. Evidence does. Nuremberg didn’t prove the Holocaust. Auschwitz and Treblinka and Bergen-Belsen and Belzec and Sobibor and Dachau did. So let’s not let Zyklon-B fumigate our thinking. The most notable thing Nuremberg contributed to the evidence of the atrocity is the atrocious defense: “I was following orders.”
Amazing, and revolting, how the opportunism of holocaust-deniers latches on to every shred of sophistry, not to mention the cynical uses of the Shoah itself, to weasel their way to their aims.
The unsubtle subtext of your “accurate reality”–that the Armenians asked for it–is equally revolting.
KG, there are Turks who know the truth and choose to spew the same, tired old specious argument: it never happened but maybe if it did, the Armenians deserved it.
There are Turks who really believe the version of history forcibly taught in Turkey is real.
Which Turk are you?
See “Top 20 Tall Turkish Tales”
Top 20 Tall Turkish Tales link here:
AIPAC is relevant because it is the one group that has consistently used its influence to scuttle every genocide-affirmation bill in U.S. Congress. Shame on them!
John, elaborate, please.
Turkish lies…lies and more lies…when will the USA finally break free from this Turkish…There was a Genocide and Turkey must fess up to its history and finally admit it…what right do they have to dictate to governments what they can or cannot accept…
@vilen “Dancing with Turkey is a dangerous game that might lead to future Genocides.” WTF? This is what they teach you at diaspora schools? Thing this way. If Turks think they will be accused of the worst in any case what will they do at the next conflict?
@ROBERT “what right do they have to dictate to governments what they can or cannot accept… ” I agree with you. Armenian lobbies should stop telling governments what to do.
nyoped,
The Turks are treating the Kurds today the same way that they treated the Armenians. So your hypothetical “next conflict” is happening now. It’s not happening because the world thinks Turkey is evil, it’s because targeting a minority as a security threat to justify human rights violations has worked in the past, so it’s easy to maintain that policy.
As for your comment on Armenian lobbies, they are comprised of citizens who take the time to exercise their rights as citizens to ask that their elected official properly commemorate the memory of their grandparents and great-grandparents. There is nothing inappropriate about that. It is our democratic system. Its a grass-roots organization that isn’t some high-powered, highly funded machine. If it were, the U.S. would have recognized the Genocide by now.
Maybe people don’t care as much about the Armenian “genocide” because the Armenians constantly reinforce negative stereotypes about themselves. From fraud and shady business practices, to their aggressive and flashy behavior, they don’t exactly inspire much love.
Unholy mother of garbage, Robert! From ignorance to bigotry to rank racism. And where did you get that “Many people don’t care” crap? Not that the claim should even be dignified with a retort, but what the hell: cite me a single credible source (I’ll take half credible) other than Turkish deniers or your Facebook posse to back up that supremely stupid statement.
Well, Pierre, talk to many non-Armenians in Glendale, California to find out how much Armenians bring this on themselves. Go ahead, talk to someone other than an Armenia about this and you’ll see that no one really cares.
For the record, Glendale has one of the country’s largest communities of Armenians, and from what I know, their businesses, political representatives and media (isn’t the Courier owned by an Armenian?) aren’t suffering from any boycotts.
I’m saying this to readers of this thread, Robert, not to you, since you obviously know all this, but apparently don’t like Armenians, and seem bent on turning a personal antipathy into a judgment, and a very false one at that, on history. How unbecoming.
The numerous accusations and uninformed opinions in these replies only show why an independent trial is necessary. This gives boths sides the opportunity to bring forward their own evidences and have them judged fairly.
Pierre, if your replies where less schizophrenic and made some sense as well as showing at least some understanding of basic western values of justice they would merit a response.
CHarles, i remember in 2002 when i first came across this topic, prior to which i had never even heard of Armenia let alone incidents in Eastern Turkey nearly a hundred years ago, i was accused of being a victim of the Turkish Education system. I see nothing has changed much since then. For the record I have never even stepped foot inside a Turkish school let alone had the chance to be educated by finest of Turkish school Teachers. The site moderators and admins can verify my IP address as being located in Scotland, U.K.
KG, “accusations and uninformed opinions” don’t show that an independent trial is necessary. They show how boring and pointless they are. So live up to your own presumed standard. If you make a claim or an accusation, be precise. Be specific. Back it up. And make it credible. How about that for some basic western values of evidence? You’ll always be welcome if you apply them. Otherwise, please, take your ad hominem bytes elsewhere.
Thank you for proving my point.
I have not attacked your person (look up the meaning of ad hominem) but to say your replies lack coherence or sense.
Look really you dont understand how justice works in the west. I find it difficult replying to you. You go on about no need for trials because evidence is to be found outside of a trial. The point of a trial is to bring those evidences before a qualified judge to determine their validity as well as the guilt and liability of the accused.
Innocent until PROVEN guilty. Why are Armenians so scared to bring this to trial?
That’s better KG, though your arguments wouldn’t stand up in court. Good thing Judge Alex isn’t watching.
KG. May be you have immigrated to North America from somewhere. First, I would like to ask, why have you immigrated to this country? If you are of Turkish origin, my next question will be, When was the Turkishness as a country and Nation? organized. How come the original owners of the land are so few on their land? Do you know your own history? Empires have come and gone.
If for all the above questions do not shake your core, I am sorry that you are a human being. You may deny the Armenian genocide, but its a fact. Turks plundered and killed for centuries, remember the saying “from where theTurk walks the grass never grown.”
I am an old woman, I am the first generation of two orphans whose parents were butchered. You want facts, read, study, learn so that next time there is an atrocity immediate around you, take courage and stand up and protest. Do not hit the bush with nonsense talk.
I assume all of you that leave messages on this page, more or less you must have a secondary education, received here in Canada or abroad. I am not young I have been around the block for many years. Once more I assume all the ones that leave messages are young, and have no clue of RECENT history. What a shame. If one does not know recent history, will repeat the same mistakes over and over again. As it is the case of Iran, Afghanistan, Irak etc.
Let me tell to all. Deniers of Armenian Genocide.
As I said, I am not young. In 1967 I was employed and working for an Engineering company. I was the only woman working between 800 foreign and Arab employees. When the Arab boys learned that I was Armenian, and that my grand parents came from Urhia, (does any one of you know where it is? It is in the heart of historical Armenia), well, they volunteered to take me there. At the time we were at the border of Syria and Turkey, and we were in and out to both sides of the border. My father was alive, I asked details of their house where he was born, off we went. Upon arrival, we checked, found all the details my father had given to me, the boys inquired about the past owner’s of the house, and promised to buy anything old that had any value from the former owner. I was dressed as a young man, as I found ir dangerous for me to go there as a woman. I bought few items and specifically a cup. As it was engraved with my grandparents name and date of marriage. (it was a custom to give cups to young couples in the olden days?).
Well, deniers of TRUTH. Deniers of Armenian Genocide. Deniers of Metz Yegern.
When the old man learned that I was one of the descendants of the owner of the house, turned to me and said ” I WILL BORE YOUR EYES OUT OF THE SOCKETS, you Armenian gyavour.” This was in 1967. Is this old ignorant deniers.
Ask one question. WHEN DID THE TURKS APPEAR IN TODAY’S TURKY?
If Any one of you DENY the Armenian genocide, must check your background, and find out who you are, from where you come from, and what hidden agenda you are pursuing. When you deny the Armenian Genocide, According to you deniers logic, there was no first world war, no second world war, no Darfur, no Rwanda, no Irak, no Afghanistan war, no WAR AT ALL. North and south America was empty grassland and all of us we are ‘white’ as snow without any wrongdoing.
What a shame. If people, instead of educating themselves, blindly can have the audacity to deny or pretend to know something and respond to issues out of their ordinary brain wavelength, than this world will see more genocide’s, more discrimination, more corruption, more aggression. Nature didnot create human animals to chop each other. Think. Use your brain to think.